MOTHERMARY Discuss Upcoming Debut Album on Italians Do It Better, Leaving Mormonism, Life as an Artist Twin, and More

Twin sibling duo MOTHERMARY grabbed our attention over the last year with a series of standout singles and videos released via the ever-impeccable Italians Do It Better label. Indeed, MOTHERMARY’s dark electro-pop – perfectly complemented by their self-directed video work – has quickly become a staple here at WMF HQ. Keen to learn more about the sisters’ backstory, current projects, and future plans, we sat down with them in Hollywood recently for an in-depth conversation about all the above, and much more.

Bobby Weirdo: I’d love to start with questions for you both as individuals since you’ve done a lot of creative work separately, and then get into your work together as MOTHERMARY. Going back a while…Larena, were you in a production of Cats?

Larena Winn: Yes, I was! This is a little bit about our story. We grew up Mormon, and I went to a Mormon college – BYU. They decided to put on a production of Cats, which is a very sexy show. I don’t know how else to put it – it’s sexy and seductive. Mormons can’t be seductive like that.

The school was trying to cancel it, but the director really wanted to do it, so he said that we wouldn’t wear tight leotards. [Instead they] put us in full-on fur cat suits. There were prosthetic noses, and they made us look like cats – real cats. Not like the show where….

Elyse Winn: Where there was sexy spandex…

LW: Yeah! So they did the craziest Cats production I have ever seen. I played two different characters: Jennyanydots, who is the big fat funny character. I was in a cat fat suit with this whole ridiculous outfit. And then I also played Bombalurina, who is the sexy sultry cat that has the seductress song. So I went from a giant fat suit to a tiny little thing…but still had to be full of hair and sing with a prosthetic nose.

I will say that although it was nuts of them to do that, it was a really entertaining show, and I think people liked it. I loved that I got to play two of the main characters. Who gets to play Jennyanydots and Bombalurina?

EW: I did go to see their shows, and this was when [Larena] hadn’t left the Church yet, and I had. I was kind of rolling my eyes at this dorky Mormon production, but it was actually very good – I thought you guys did a great job. And then I was also scheming how to get everyone in the production out of the Church.

LW: Totally.

BW: And you said this was at BYU – that’s BYU-Idaho, right?

LW: Yes. There are three campuses, and I was in the middle of a desert in Idaho for college.

BW: You were also in the musical Ellis Island. Was that after college?

LW: I did Ellis Island when I first moved to New York [and] it was the first musical I had ever auditioned for [in New York City ]. I was so nervous, saying [to myself] I was a girl who had just left a Mormon-ville, and was the tiniest fish in a huge city. I felt so insecure, but I was like, “Whatever. You’re going to go in there and give it your best shot, and sing your best song.” And to my surprise I got cast!

From then on, it was way harder. “How do I get that energy of ‘it doesn’t matter if I suck’ back?” Because apparently that worked for me.

[Ellis Island] was a kids show mini-tour. I played a comedic character and had to learn a Russian accent. I auditioned for the Irish character, but they asked if I could learn a Russian accent for the callback, so I stayed up all night learning the Russian accent. It was fun.

BW: What is the Jackie Baker character you portrayed from?

LW: The bread and butter for a brand new actor in NYC who's looking for a speaking role is educational spots. That was something for Pearson Education, who does movies for English language learners. So no one sees it in the U.S. but they’re some of the most watched films. They go all over the world, and kids in classrooms use them to learn English.

Jackie Baker is from that film. That was a blast, because Jackie is a psycho and they really just let me do whatever I wanted for the role. This Jackie character impersonates like three different people [so] I did three different accents. It was ridiculous. That’s what I feel like I always play – psychos and moms.

BW: Were you also doing visual art like drawing at BYU?

LW: Yeah, I took art classes every semester just for fun, as well as dance classes. I ended up getting a minor in dance just because I took so many [dance courses], not that I’m good. When I got Cats, they said, “You’re not a technical dancer, but you’ve got a lot of energy, so you stood out, and we loved it!”

*Larena Winn, 2021. Photo: Cameron Murray for WMF*

BW: And you do Drink and Draws in New York, right?

EW: I do the Drink and Draws.

LW: I went to them, but Elyse ran them.

EW: I started it; it’s my baby.

BW: Was that at one particular bar, or how did that work?

EW: Yeah, I was bartending at Featherweight in Brooklyn, and they had an upstairs space, which was essentially an attic. I always wanted to have a drawing class, and the bar owner wanted more people to come in, so I said I would host a new drawing class, pay the model, and let people buy cocktails in order to enter.

I was nervous having a naked person in a bar – or above the bar – [but] it was a beautiful community that showed up. People had so much respect. We did it twice a month, and it was time where people could come together and draw. It was meditative, and I’d have a DJ or just put on a playlist. I had new models all the time, and it was great.

LW: You’d always meet new people. New York is so busy, that it was really nice to just sit and be with people, but not talk.

EW: Yeah. I feel like a lot [of the time] in New York, the only thing to do is go get drinks somewhere…

LW: So at least we could draw.

EW: So at least we could drink and draw. You have to get people there with the drinks. Once they come, they’re happy about the drawing.

BW: Elyse, you do other visual art in addition to drawing. You made the music video for Cigar Cigarette’s “Hard Five”.

EW: Yeah.

BW: And besides MOTHERMARY, you’re a full-fledged member of Cigar Cigarette?

EW: Yeah, totally.

BW: Did that [project] start in New York?

EW: Yeah, I met Chris [McLaughlin] in New York five years ago. He helps produce MOTHERMARY with us as well, and I help him write with Cigar Cigarette, do his music videos, and art direction.

BW: As you touched on, Chris co-writes and co-produces with MOTHERMARY. Would you describe him as being a part of MOTHERMARY?

EW: I was doing [Mothermary] on my own for a long time, and then when I started working with Chris, I had a connection with him writing music like I never have [had] with someone else other than my twin. We have similar visions, and he’s so fun to work with. He’s not a part of every single song, but most of them, and I usually have him do the final mix. We also occasionally work with other producers and love to collaborate.

LW: He’s great.

BW: You mention that you started MOTHERMARY – that’s why the early MOTHERMARY fliers are just a picture of you, and not Larena as well, right?

EW: Yes.

LW: I joined later; she started MOTHERMARY by herself.

*Elyse Winn, 2021. Photo: Cameron Murray for WMF*

BW: And before you were doing that, you were in Bearclause.

LW: I knew they were going to find that – I knew it!

EW: I tried to hide it but…

LW: She’s the queen of burn your past and move forward, but it’s so good to bring up her past. Talk about it!

EW: Yes. So, I left BYU and hitched a ride to Salt Lake City. I didn’t know anyone, and just moved into an eight-room house that had ten people living in it. I got really lucky – I’m still really good friends with a few [who were] there.

We were all musicians and artists, and we started playing music together. Back then, it was really the era of Grizzly Bear, Beach House…

LW: Unknown Mortal Orchestra…

EW: Yeah. Warpaint, Tune-Yards and shit…weird freak folk. We were really into folky music back then, and we would just play music together all night long. Eventually we [decided to] play shows. We were cute...

LW: It taught you a good lesson.

EW: Lots of good lessons. Being in a band is hard…

LW: And being in a band with that many people is hard.

BW: That’s the lesson that Larena is talking about?

LW: I mean the control.

EW: Oh! So the main lesson that I learned being in that band…One of our band members scheduled a recording session at a spot, and was excited, even though I had a friend who could have recorded us for free, and it would have been amazing. But she had already put a deposit down, so it was like, “OK – I guess we’re doing this.”

We recorded there, and when she got the recording, she was excited and showed it to me. My heart dropped because it was so bad.

BW: That’s the EP that’s out there?

EW: Yes. I was like, “Oh, shit!” She loved it, and I hated it. I went back to the producer to remix it with him, but it just couldn’t be saved. Things were out of time and out of key, and he just threw reverb on everything.

Now that I am a producer, I know what went wrong. But back then, I didn’t have the language to explain what I wanted and needed out of it, so we just got something that didn’t sound like us at all. Our live performances sounded closer [to what we were about] than what that recording sounds like to me.

LW: It’s very Elyse to have something like that happen, and then say, “Fine – I’m just going to start learning it myself.” She just dug in, figured out how to record everything herself, and started producing.

EW: After that, I stopped playing music for a while because I was so upset by [that experience]. I went to Europe for a while, and then I moved to New York, [where] I lived with a couple friends who were producers. I learned Logic and Ableton from them, and I fell in love with music again, because I was able to have full control over the sound, and I could write every part of the song: the drums, the key parts, whatever.

BW: Sometimes I feel like a situation like that band situation you described works out perfectly in the end, and if something were just a little bit better, it might not have pushed you into that other place where you were meant to go.

LW: It’s so true!

BW: I do like “Pull” and “Fight” – I think those are cool songs from that EP.

EW: Thanks! We never recorded our favorite songs, because we were still playing after that. Those [songs] are some of the first ….no, because I’ve been writing songs on the guitar since forever.

LW: Elyse and I were in a band in college, when we were both still Mormon.

EW: None of those songs were recorded.

BW: What was the name of the band?

LW: I don’t remember, but there was a name. We’d play at the farmers market. That was Elyse’s last try at Mormonism when she was writing those songs. Elyse’s last desperate try – “If it’s true, please let me know!” And then you were like, “OK, it’s not true,” and then boom – you left and were gone.

*MOTHERMARY, 2021. Photo: Cameron Murray for WMF*

BW: Elyse, also before you two were doing MOTHERMARY together, you scored a mini-doc called The Spiritual Life of Wholesale Goods. Did you get a raw cut and then come up with musical ideas, like those ethereal arpeggiated synths, and that kind of thing? What was that process like?

EW: It was hilarious. John Wilson was my boyfriend at the time.

BW: And he’s gone on to do work for HBO…

LW: Yeah, now there are billboards.

EW: Yeah, now I have to look at billboards when I dive around L.A.! No it's fine – we’re still friends.

LW: I just talked to him the other day – he didn’t even know [about the billboards].

EW: He usually just used royalty-free music, but he couldn’t find exactly what he wanted. He wanted something that sounded kind of spiritual, but turned dark. I said, “Let me try.”

That was early producing for me, so I’m glad he let me give it a shot. It wasn’t even MIDI. Now I'm using all MIDI, but that was actually me playing the parts by hand, recording them live into Ableton.

BW: Are you still into making terrariums?

EW: I mean, am I into stained glass?

LW: She used to have a soldering kit and was making it all the time.

EW: I still love soldering.

LW: And you have jewelry that you did. She gets good at something and then abandons it.

EW: I have seasons, and I like change and getting into new things.

LW: We also soldered our crystal outfits in the “Resurrection” music video by hand.

BW: Where did you learn to solder? At school or at home?

LW: At home. We never bought a Halloween costume growing up – our mom would sew it from scratch, and she would teach us.

EW: We sewed our prom dresses.

LW: DIY to the max.

EW: Eventually you have to realize that DIY is great until someone is going to do it cheaper and faster than you [when you are] literally learning from scratch.

BW: When you were both growing up in Montana, what was your experience with music? Were there bands you were hearing?

LW: In high school, there was actually a cool music scene in Missoula — especially for a small town in Montana. Every single weekend we would go to Boys and Girls Club, and there would be a free show or a five-dollar show. We went and saw music virtually every single weekend — Friday and Saturday. We couldn’t go Sunday because we were Mormon, but sometimes we would sneak out and still go to shows.

Suzy Weirdo: It’s a college town?

LW: Yes, it’s a college town, and we would go see everything.

EW: Whatever was in town.

LW: Whatever was in town, we’d go see.

EW: But it normally was scene – emo…

LW: Punk…

EW: Lots of punk, metal, hardcore.

LW: Every now and then some electro, but usually electro rock.

LW: My dad would play music or sing in choir when we were little, and cry. Hearing music, playing music, and being a part of it has always been really important.

EW: Our whole family is very into the arts in general.

BW: “You are So Beautiful” was an important song to your dad, and he in turn is very important to both of you.

LW: That’s a song he would always sing to us when we would wake up in the morning.

EW: He taught me how to play guitar.

LW: Yeah, he taught us how to play guitar, piano, and he had a beautiful voice. My mom was jealous.

EW: My mom cannot sing! But my mom got the visual art…

LW: Our mom is a good visual artist – very capable. But my dad had a beautiful voice.

BW: Where did your dad get his musical abilities? Did he have lessons, or was he self-taught?

LW: He grew up Mormon in Idaho. If you’re a Mormon, you sing in the choir, [and] Mormons love musicals. His family would play piano, and he would sing with [them].

EW: I think he had some lessons for sure, and I remember in high school he was in all the musicals.

BW: Speaking of high school, you went to Big Sky High School, and there was a band, drama, and choir there. Did you participate in any of those?

LW: All of them.

EW: Everything.

LW: I credit our drama teacher Sarah DeGrandpre, and our choir teacher Nancy Labbe for helping us develop creatively.

EW: We were also in the film club, music club, art club …And learning from Lorelee [Evans-Lynn] from poetry club has helped so much in writing song lyrics.

LW: Lorilee was our English and creative writing teacher. I still think about stuff she taught us when we write lyrics…how to start the flow. Sarah DeGrandpre was our drama teacher, and she had us writing skits, putting on shows, dance shows, cabaret…

EW: Improv shows…

LW: We did seven or eight shows a year because she would let us kids create them. She was an incredible teacher, and made me feel like I could go on and do art later on.

EW: I feel like when most [high school] seniors are done with all the credits, [they] just go home or to a study room. But we were like, “We have all this time, so we can take other classes.” So we were taking extra art classes, pottery classes, dance classes, film classes…we were always really excited about art.

BW: What was the music you experienced like in the Mormon Church? Was it fun, traditional, rock-based, or more somber in tone?

EW: It’s old hymns – it’s beautiful, but it’s just mostly people singing with a piano or an organ. It’s very basic.

LW: Violin sometimes…no guitar, no drums.

EW: Definitely not like a rock Christian band. That was one nice thing about growing up Mormon – we learned to love music at a young age.

LW: And to sing. We were talking about this the other night with our friend. I feel like you have to look at every experience. There’s good that you can pull from it, and there’s bad. To just be reactive and say it was horrible isn’t true.

The moments when we were singing, I was thinking, “Oh, this is God or something.” You get chills – it’s so beautiful and you’re a part of something. That developed my love for music and for singing. Now, I just think it’s incredible that humans can create music that gives you chills and makes you feel like a part of something.

EW: It doesn’t have to be the Holy Spirit. It’s actually you telling yourself that there’s beauty. I like that better.

BW: You’re twin siblings, and both artists, and I’m curious about that experience. There’s the artist’s ego – the artist creates something because there’s something inside them that speaks, compelling them to perform or create. You each have your own individual identity and ego.

But then being a twin – oddly – you can even be on stage and someone might not even know who is who. So there’s a strange thing where you acknowledge and reinforce that individual ego, but then also release that ego at the same time, because you’re up there with your twin sister.

LW: That’s a really good way to put it.

EW: That’s exactly it. On one hand, we had to get used to it from a very young age. Our family – like our brothers – wouldn’t even say our individual names. They just called us “girls” or “twins”.

LW: Even if it was just me, or just Elyse…[I’d be] alone, and my brother would say, “girls.”

EW: And when it was your birthday, they’d get you a single gift…

LW: Together – it’s for both of you.

EW: Or matching – it’s the same gift. So people are assuming a lot [of the time] that you’re kind of the same being, and on the one hand I’m used to it.

But on the other hand, it’s still hard for us, and there is some struggle where one of us will feel like we’re not being seen for our [individual] contribution, or our contribution is being placed on the other one, or the other one is feeling pushed out.

LW: It happens all the time, where someone will be talking to me, acting like I do everything. Or they’ll be talking to Elyse, acting like she does everything, or everything in between.

EW: It’s hilarious – I feel like there are some fans who are just obsessed with Larena. I’ll see some fan art where it’s just Larena [as] MOTHERMARY. It’s hilarious; I just laugh.

LW: That was hard too, because Elyse started it, and it was her baby. When I moved to New York, I moved in with her. At first she’d say things like, “Come in and help me – listen to this” or “let’s play around,” or whatever.

It wasn’t until she said, “I need someone to sing these parts, and you sound like me, so it would be fun [to perform together].” At that show, Elyse asked if I just wanted to be part of the band. I felt like I didn’t want to step on toes, because I love my sister and the art that she makes. I was proud of it, and proud of her. I loved it, and was a fan of MOTHERMARY before I joined.

She asked me, and I was scared because – as you said – I’m an artist too. If you put time into something and set aside some of your life to do something together, you want to feel like you contribute, you do something important, and your voice is heard. And also that you’re not stepping on your sister, and that she [doesn’t] hate you forever for joining, or think that you talk more than her.

EW: That’s always what you do!

LW: She always thinks I talk way more than she does.

EW: No, but I actually appreciate it now, because I just have less to say.

LW: It’s tricky – whenever we work together, I feel like we have a conversation where we say “I’m feeling like this…”

EW: And luckily, we’ve had a lot of practice.

BW: So at this point, MOTHERMARY was doing shows as a duo. Where does Italians Do It Better come into all this? Did you have recordings, and send a demo to Italians Do It Better, or what happened?

EW: So, we finished “Catch Fire” and I was so stoked. I was bent on not having a label, and just releasing myself, so we were just sending it around to friends to check the mix before I self-released it. Our friend Alex Frankel from Holy Ghost said, “I love this; this is incredible. Do not release this – let me see if I can do something here.”

He’s good friends with Megan [Louise] and sent it to Italians. They loved it, and we did a single deal. The rest is history. Once Alex got that for us, he [started] managing us.

BW: So that all came about because of “Catch Fire”, and since then there have been three singles and videos. At this point, are you working toward an album?

EW: We did a few single deals, and now we have an album coming up in the fall. We’re just finishing it up.

LW: We’re really close. They’ve been so great and flexible with us – we’ve heard so many horror stories about labels, and they just wanted us to be comfortable. It felt like a dating relationship that was really healthy. Like, “We’ll just do a single”, and “That felt good; let’s do another one.”

EW: I’d just heard so many horror stories from friends, and I was so afraid. But they’ve been really great, let us have creative freedom, and they believe in us.

BW: You have those four singles, and two remixes already. Is that scary to let go of a song and say, “OK, have at it”?

EW: I get hit up a lot for remixes – sorry, people in my DMs!

BW: To do them, or have them remix MOTHERMARY?

EW: To remix my stuff.

LW: We’re very scared of remixes, generally.

EW: I’m afraid of not liking it…

LW: Yes…

EW: …and then breaking their heart. But HERO hit me up, and I happened to listen to his music, and thought it was sick. It just made sense, and whatever he did, [I knew] I was going to love it. I was a little nervous, but when he sent it to me, I thought it was amazing. We had no notes.

BW: And how did it work with the one Johnny Jewel did?

LW: “Catch Fire” – that was the first one, and it was a new relationship. I have the personality out of the two of us of, “Yeah, it’s cool. Let everyone do a remix! I want to hear what they do, and what their take on it is.” And Elyse is like, “I’m scared; this is my baby.” But we really like what he does, and he just sent it to us.

EW: He asked what we thought, and we just said, “Hell yeah!”

BW: “Barbie Girl” was for an ad campaign, right?

EW: Yeah. It was funny – we were on vacation in Mexico, and our friends [who] work with a production company they started called Loroto hit us up. They said their clients wanted a cover of “Barbie Girl”. I think Aqua was the first CD we every bought.

EW: That and Rock Steady.

BW: By No Doubt?

LW: Yeah. I thought Spice Girls was my first…

EW: Oh, and Spice Girls ...

EW: But Aqua was one of the first.

LW: Yes…

EW: And I thought, “Yes! I could do a great ‘Barbie Girl’ cover.” We literally did it on the beach in Mexico really fast – three days. I only did about a minute of it because that’s all they needed, and just thought, “Cool – they’ll use it for the thing, and it’s just a paycheck.” Then, all of a sudden, everyone went crazy and said, “Where is the song? We have to hear the rest of it!”

LW: Yeah, people were asking for it.

EW: So we recorded the rest. And that’s why it starts on the second verse…

LW: Which I like, though…I think the second verse is a fun start.

EW: Yeah – I like that we did that too.

BW: Elyse, you’ve recently moved here to L.A. And Larena, my understanding is that you’ll be moving here as well. Is that true?

LW: Yeah, I love my sister, and I was actually so annoyed when she said, “I want to move to L.A. – now!” That’s so Elyse. But I’ve been talking about moving to L.A. for a long time. Since I first moved to New York, I wanted to be in L.A. too...

EW: Yeah, we talked about being bi-coastal forever.

LW: And [now] Elyse has fully moved. Everyone keeps asking me when I’m moving to L.A., and I say, “I’m not – I’m going to be bi-coastal and love both places.” I don’t know if that’s impossible or stupid, but that’s the plan until it doesn’t work out.

BW: MOTHERMARY is credited as “co-directing” your videos. And then for a video like “Pray”, for example, Sage Bennett is also credited as co-director.

EW: Yeah, she co-directed [that one]. We usually have a co-director, just because we’re in the shots.

BW: So how does that work when you’re in the video, but also co-directing the video?

EW: Essentially, I like to say that we’re directing because we have a vision. We’re the ones who figure out the script, the costumes, the shot list, the locations…

LW: Choreography, with help.

EW: Yeah – we physically can’t be behind the camera during [video shoots], but I would if I could!

LW: Yeah, if we could only be quadruplets, and have another two of us! But we work with people we really love and trust, and they do amazing work. It’s just that there are some times when it doesn’t matter how incredible someone is, when you’re as picky as we are, we just need to see it and say, “Yep. You got it; this is it.” And then we go back in.

But there’s a lot of improv too, and we trust the artists we’re working with. They improvise, we improvise, we figure it out, and then magic happens.

BW: What was the draw to L.A.?

EW: I love New York; it’s amazing. We’re originally from the West, and from nature. I missed nature and having space. The West is a little bit slower, and I like that. New York got a little bit hectic. It’s amazing, but it’s exhausting. It’s a rat race there. Everyone is hustling, and you feel it. You feel the energy flying into the city.

LW: You wanted to be in the sun!

EW: Yeah – weather, nature…and also, I think L.A. is better for the music scene. I feel like people are going to hate me for saying that. New York has a great music scene as well.

LW: Honestly, it’s the nature and the weather. I love New York, and I also love L.A. The culture, the people, and everything else…they’re the two greatest cities in the States. So to be a part of them and have the best of both worlds is awesome.

But when I think of L.A., I think of warmth, the sun, hiking, and beautiful plants and flowers everywhere.

EW: And I miss the grit of New York, the fashion, and just the cool factor.

LW: For me, there’s an authenticity about New Yorkers. [During] the pandemic, neighborhoods just came together.

EW: There’s a sense of community in New York – it’s because you’re living next to each other. You see each other on the train every day. You are literally a part of – and surrounded by – your community. More than L.A., because everyone is in their cars in L.A. But I do love L.A., and here I am. I love both cities.

BW: Looking in the long-term crystal ball for MOTHERMARY now…the singles and videos so far all have religious motifs, and deal with that subject matter. I’m sure it’s impossible to say at this point, but do you see that as being a life-long or project-long motif, or do you see Mothermary albums 2 and 3 where the project name is there, but the sources of creative inspiration are different?

EW: I feel like it’s an album thing, but I want to say that everything that we’re writing about is so deeply true to us that it’s not like I’m never going to write about or have religious things in my music ever again.

I feel with the first album that we’re exploring that fully, as much as we can. And there are going to be songs on the album that maybe don’t explicitly have religious themes.

LW: I agree with Elyse; it’s album-based. You can have a religious name, and then move on from it and do whatever you want. We definitely want that freedom. But an introduction of us to the world goes back to our beginnings – religion, escaping it, and finding ourselves through that. We have to start there.

EW: Yeah, that’s where the story begins.

BW: So, four singles are complete. Will they be on the album?

EW: Yes, they will.

BW: And then you’re working on more material for the debut album on Italians Do It Better that will be out this fall.

EW and LW: Yes.

BW: Will there be live shows coming up?

EW: Definitely.

LW: Yes – once the album’s out, for sure.

BW: Will there be any more videos?

LW: Definitely, yeah.

EW: We love making videos, so there are going to be more. But we also love live performance, and are really excited. We had a crazy live performance planned…

LW: God! It would have been so cool…it still will be cool.

EW: It will be very cool. It will be even cooler, because we’re just going to layer on top of what we had. We like our shows to be more like performance art – we want you to be like, “I can’t stay at home and experience that.”

Nowadays, you can hear the songs best in your headphones or your stereo. But what you get out of a concert is an experience, and we love that. We want a really crazy experience for everyone who sees our shows.

LW: So hopefully we’ll release the album sometime in the fall, and then announce shows.

EW: For sure we’ll start with at least New York and L.A.