Tim Burgess Talks Upcoming Album I Love The New Sky, Inspiring Collaborations, and Positive Energy

Anyone familiar with WMF is aware that Tim Burgess plays a crucial role in our proverbial nook of the music world. Through his prolific body of work that encompasses music, writing, curating, label releases, and more, Tim Burgess embodies an inspirational artistic zeitgeist of experimentalism, open-mindedness, and communal support. It was a given, therefore, that we would be in attendance during the final days of Winter 2020 for a string of live Tim Burgess New York shows [supported ably by his band, known informally as The New Skies]. These unprecedented live U.S. shows were an early part of the rollout for Tim’s upcoming and remarkable album, I Love The New Sky [out May 22 via Bella Union].

Unexpectedly, the shadow of COVID-19 (not yet an official pandemic at the time of these conversations) was beginning to loom large as it permeated our lives and discussions, parts of which are documented here. It is with profound gratitude that we share the following extensive dialogue with Tim, covering his upcoming album, the artists and people in his life, and the importance of positive energy.

Bobby Weirdo: The name of your upcoming solo album is I Love The New Sky. You and I have talked offline about that title. Am I correct in saying that it’s a Sky Ferreira reference?

Tim Burgess: It’s not a reference to her, but is a direct reference to a FaceTime conversation I was having with my friend. He asked if I’d heard the new Sky Ferreira [single] “Downhill Lullaby”, and I just said, “I love the new Sky.” I’d had a few attempts at naming my album, but when I heard that, that was it.

I was singing it last night in the song “Laurie’, and realized it’s a lot more than that [reference]. But for us – and Weirdo Music Forever fans – I think it’s of interest because it’s amazing how sometimes titles are just there, and you see them. I saw The Charlatans’ “So Oh” – it was just two separate words [somewhere], and then I wrote them together.

I just want as many people to hear [this album] as possible, because there’s a purity about where it came from. [There was a] simplicity of being in the same room at home with an acoustic guitar, and letting it grow into arrangements like “Comme D’Habitude”.

It would sound corny if I said it [started] with a seed, but [it was about] finding chords that I like, that inspired melodies, that inspired words.

[It went from] that simple framework into the elaborate Van Dyke Parks-inspired arrangements. [John Cale’s] Paris 1919 is very simplistic in a lot of ways, with the melodies of the piano and the vocals, but the arrangements are fantastic, too. I can hear John Cale in the piano part of “Warhol Me”. It’s the kind of simplistic part you’d hear in the Velvet Undergound.

*Tim Burgess in Manhattan, 2020. Photo: Cameron Murray for WMF*

BW: Was Paris 1919 a conscious reference record that you listened to while making I Love The New Sky?

TB: I would just play it. I don’t want to replicate anything, but if things drift in and out, I don’t stop it either, because I don’t shut the door on anything. I listened to that a lot, and I always listen to a lot of Todd Rundgren, Paul McCartney, the second Brian Eno album…that kind of thing.

BW: As I Was Now is your most recent solo album before this one. You recorded it over a decade ago, but it only came back into your life –and finally saw an official release – in 2018. While you were releasing that album, along with its associated singles and videos, were you already writing I Love The New Sky?

TB: No, I think it just inspired the idea that this is what I wanted to do next. It just felt like the natural thing to do, and I always go by whatever feels natural.

BW: So at that point, you were at home, writing songs – music and lyrics – with an acoustic guitar?

TB: Yeah, just trying to figure it all out. I thought originally there might be some modular synths and acoustic guitars. [I had] ideas, but didn’t limit them to going in any [particular] way. I just allowed them to reveal themselves.

Also, I wanted to work with Daniel [O’Sullivan]. I loved [his album] Folly so much that I released it on O Genesis. That went great, and then Daniel brought along Thighpaulsandra, who mixed that record. It just so happened that Thighpaulsandra was working at Rockfield, a studio I really wanted to go to again because I knew what it had. By that time, I was really looking for a sound that I knew I could get there, so it all fell into place.

BW: Thighpaulsandra was a member of Coil, and has also played with Spiritualized, in addition to his solo work. Besides him happening to be at Rockfield, was there a connection between the two of you?

TB: He worked on Daniel’s album, Folly.

BW: And you thought his role would only be that of mixing, but it turns out that he played on it as well, right?

TB: Yeah. He was always going to mix the album. I didn’t know that his mixing process [included] adding things as well, but it makes so much sense. If you need something when you’re mixing, you just get it. And he has the facility and knowledge to do that – he’s a synth guy. I was all for it, and the more the relationship grew, the better the understanding of this unspoken aesthetic was.

BW: So –going back a bit – you had some material, and then contacted Daniel to ask him to be the album’s producer.

TB: Yeah.

BW: And then did Daniel say, “Great, and I’m going to bring Thighpaulsandra into this”?

TB: We were waiting to work with Thighpualsandra, but wanted to go into in the studio [right away] to try some things out. So we started off in Eve Studios with Jim Spencer, who has worked with The Charlatans pretty extensively, and was fantastic. We did “Empathy for the Devil”, “Sweet Old Sorry Me”, and “Undertow” with Jim, and then the next session was with Thighpaulsandra.

I didn’t know at first that it was going to work out with Daniel. We didn’t know; we didn’t plan. We just wanted to record, and it turned out so brilliantly. There wasn’t any cutting and pasting with the songs that you hear now [on the album]. They were all recorded like that.

BW: So was it at this point that you brought Nik [Colk Void] and Rose [Keeler-Schäffeler] in to the studio?

*L-R: Daniel O’Sullivan, Rose Keeler-Schäffeler, Peter Broderick, Tim Burgess, Cristos Fanaras, Thighpaulsandra. Photo: Cameron Murray*

TB: At Eve, I was with Nik and Daniel, along with Jim. When we went to Rockfield, I was with Daniel and Thighpaulsandra.

BW: Did you discuss the concept of the “Empathy for the Devil” video with the team that made it, AB/CD/CD?

TB: No. Nik had made music for one of their short films…

BW: As Factory Floor?

TB: Some years ago, they did a video for Factory Floor’s “Real Love”, and I thought it was great. But then Nik did a soundtrack for one of their short films, and it just blew my mind. So, even before the record was finished, I knew subconsciously that I wanted to work with them.

They thought [I Love the New Sky] was insane pop music, and showed me a video of a banned French Cadbury’s advert from the 70s. There was a devil all in red, with big, long curly hair. They took the song kind of literally, and I liked that these French guys were taking a literal look at the song, and wanted to take it in a pop, crazy direction.

Growing up, one of my favorite films was Lair of the White Worm. Ken Russell was quite controversial – lots of people love him, and lots of people hated him.

BW: The video for “The Mall” recently came out. Is that filmed at a mall in England?

TB: Yeah, in Coventry. We had five hours to film – around seven o’clock until midnight – and that was it.

BW: Was the whole video sketched out ahead of time? It seems pretty complex and organized to have shot the entire video in that time.

TB: Yeah, the lyric, “escalating drama on a moving staircase”…we talked about filming in a shopping mall, and how we would access that. I’ve got a great relationship with Susan [Lynch]. We talk all the time, and she just reeled off all these ideas. Everything that’s in [the video] came out of her interpretation of the song.

The mall can be like limbo – there are so many things that can happen in a shopping mall, and so many things that don’t happen.

BW: It’s interesting too, because with the changing marketplace and online shopping, malls don’t always mean now what they may have meant in the past. What were you thinking in particular, with the mall concept?

TB: Temptation, twinkling lights, and the idea of going somewhere where you [might] not know anyone, and can start afresh. It’s confusing in a shopping mall, and it kind of reflects our lives these days. It can be more confusing to shop in a mall than it is online.

I love the idea of going into a shopping mall, looking into a mirror, and seeing a better image than the one that is actually reflecting. It’s almost a fantasyland, but it’s disturbing, and a warped view of things. The twinkling lights and temptation of everything are [things that] are not real, and no one can live like that. But it’s been going on for years.

BW: Revisiting and breaking down the roles on the album’s process, you wrote most of it on an acoustic guitar at home. Then, you moved to Daniel doing some arranging and playing some additional instruments…

TB: Yeah, we’d start with everything on the acoustic guitar and vocals. We would re-track [some of that], and then add piano and drums. Then bass, and whatever else after that.

BW: Nik Void is sort of a disruptor on the album in the best of ways – the way Brian Eno might be on some albums with other artists. There’s a straight forward element on I Love The New Sky, but then there’s something subtle in the background that takes you left of center.

TB: That happens a lot with the [time signatures] on the songs – 4/4 and 3/4 happening at the same time, which is very interesting to me. Nik’s warped sounds in the background are fantastic, especially on “Sweetheart Mercury” and “Warhol Me”, and “Only Took a Year”, which is very Wicker Man sounding with harpsichord and modular synth on the same track.

BW: Here we are sitting in New York, and you just mentioned the track “The Warhol Me” from the new album. Was Andy Warhol just a random reference that entered your mind?

TB: Yeah, it was a projection, really.

BW: We’ve been talking about you playing guitar for writing purposes at home and in the studio, but you’re also here in New York playing electric guitar at the lives shows. This is the first time you’ve played guitar while performing your solo material, right?

TB: I think that’s true. I’ve played a little acoustic guitar in public on some stuff that Mark [Collins] and I have done, but never really on my solo stuff. Obviously, I’ve collaborated all my life with The Charlatans, done the Peter Gordon record, and the one with Kurt Wagner. [I did] As I Was Now with Steff [Halperin], Josh [Hayward], and Debbie [Googe], just chatting and playing.

I Love The New Sky is collaborative, but with songs that I brought to the table, already written. That was important, because I wanted to show people what I could do with a year’s work. [That’s referenced] in the song, “Only Took a Year”.

BW: From a writing perspective, how do you separate this solo Tim Burgess from The Charlatans Tim Burgess? Do you have to tell yourself ahead of time something like, “The ideas that will be coming to me will be for this particular project”?

TB: For this one, yes. A lot of the time, it doesn’t really matter. There are songs I tried with Charlatans that I ended up doing with Peter Gordon, and there are songs that haven’t worked out with my solo thing. For instance, I originally sent “Talking in Tones” to Kurt Wagner and – for some reason – he didn’t respond! But I’m quite glad about that, because it worked really well as the first track on Modern Nature. But mostly, Charlatans has been collaborative.

BW: And Mark appears on I Love The New Sky.

TB: Yeah, he played on “Empathy for the Devil”, a little bit on “Sweetheart Mercury”, and did vocals on the big end section of “Laurie”.

BW: So I Love The New Sky was conceived as a solo album from the start?

TB: I wanted to create an album which I could play in America, and – with the exception of one show at the Cat & Fiddle Pub on Sunset – I’ve never played solo in America

*Tim Burgess in Times Square, NYC, 2020. Photo: Cameron Murray for WMF*

BW: The Cat & Fiddle is also where you wrote “Oh My Corazon”, right?

TB: Yeah – it was, actually.

BW: You wrote about that song in your third and most recent book, One Two Another, and you’ve mentioned – at least casually – that you may already have an idea for a fourth book. Is this something you’ll be pursuing?

TB: I will. I love the lyric book [One Two Another], and felt really good about it. It’s stories around the lyrics, and to me, the lyrics sell the book. But the best book idea for me in many ways was probably Tim Book Two. I loved how that one went, and how long I took on it. I’d like to do a new book about travel.

BW: I like how there’s a thread throughout all your books: Telling Stories was a straight-up autobiography. Tim Book Two is – in a sense – also an autobiography. It’s not just about the records that you look for and find, but also about your relationship with the people that tell you about them.

TB: Yeah, like Ian Rankin, Sharon Horgan, Cosey Fanni Tutti, Chris Carter, Nik…

BW: I love your story of Jason Falkner telling you about R. Stevie Moore at a party. And then it’s the same idea in One Two Another, since it’s not as if it’s a coffee table book with just lyrics. Instead, it’s the human connections to these lyrics and songs you’ve written.

Also, we’ve spoken before about how you apply that approach to your record label, O Genesis, and how that undertaking is about the people behind the music it releases. The focus is sharing music by people with whom you may share a special connection.

TB: The thing is, it costs quite a bit of money to put someone’s record out. I don’t give advances, because that’s not the kind of label it is, but I’ve ended up working with all the people that I’ve put records out with in some capacity. I find them interesting, and I like to see the way people do things. It’s often very inspiring – just because you’ve been doing something for a long time doesn’t mean you lose interest in how people do things.

That’s why I love working with people like Rose [Keeler-Schäffeler], Daniel, and – more recently – Thighpaulsandra and Peter Broderick. They give me something that I’ve never hunted down, but when I hear it, it reminds me of something that I want to take my own music to. When Peter played the violin on “Laurie” and “Empathy for the Devil”, it took me to Scarlet Riviera’s style of violin playing on Bob Dylan’s records. I didn’t know if that was something I needed, but it was a different approach than having a guitar solo or a drum solo, or something like that. I felt like no one is doing that, so it’s great.

BW: Utilizing something like a violin solo instead of something like a guitar solo does draw you out of the expected form of a song or album. I think sometimes our brains can just turn off while listening to music because we’re only hearing what we’ve been expecting to hear.

TB: Yeah, I love that, and it’s just beautiful playing. With O Genesis, and with all the people that are in Tim Book Two, I feel like I need these people in my life.

*Paste Magazine live stream in NYC, 2020. Photo: Cameron Murray for WMF*

BW: You’re scheduled to DJ while you’re here in New York. You DJ all over the world, and I’m curious about your approach to DJ sets. Is it a reactive approach, where you play to a particular room and group of people?

TB: It’s always different. If I were to DJ to people I already knew in a room like this, it would be a very different kind of thing than walking into a room where other DJs have been playing the bangers, and you have to sort of start over again. To me, that’s more of a crowd-pleasing set.

I don’t know what my approach here will be, because I don’t know what to expect. It might be low-key, it might be very indie, dance…I don’t really know, but whatever it is, I’ll be looking around to make it my art, and how I want the night to be.

It’s like the [live] set tonight – I’d like to start with “Sweetheart Mercury”, and we’ll see how everyone else feels about that. But I really want to play this version of “The Only One I Know” we’ve been doing, because it’s very Silver Apples, or kraut rock. There’s lots of singing, and the great thing about this band and album is that there’s loads of vocals.

*Tim Burgess and Rose Keeler-Schaffeler (Keel Her). Photo: Cameron Murray for WMF*

BW: In retrospect, “The Only One I Know” seems so ahead of its time.

TB: It does.

BW: There’s a grab bag of references that are smashed together into its own, wonderful statement. It still sounds great, and is a remarkable track to look back on.

TB: I think so too; I’m so proud of that song. It’s allowed [The Charlatans] so many things, because it’s kept on going, and was always ahead of the game. The music references would be Deep Purple, Diana Ross, Syd Barrett…and Syd and Diana were certainly head of the game anyway. There’s a nice Byrds reference in there as well.

It was a snapshot written in a moment, so it wasn’t thought out. It was just done. A lot of my favorite songs – especially the ones that [The Charlatans] have done have been jam-packed with ideas. The ideas are original because they come from a place where you’re not second-guessing and not trying [to copy]. I’ve tried to copy something, and never been able to manage it.

I just listen to records. I write when I feel inspired, and the first great thing I find leads me to the next bit, and then I try to get as many ideas as possible. That’s why I love this album, because it just has so many ideas. There are so many R. Stevie[Moore] bits in there. I can read R. Stevie Moore’s review for you, if you like, because it’s important:

“It’s fantastic, Tim. Thanks for sharing it with me. Album title? Self-produced? I love the extra experimentation. It goes all over the map very often. Looking forward to getting a big download. Rose is playing on which tracks? Who’s the band? Superb songwriting. Love you immensely.”

It’s good, isn’t it? That matters [to me].

*Tim Burgess and Daniel O’Sullivan. Photo: Cameron Murray for WMF*

BW: I Love the New Sky is going to be released via Bella Union. That’s the label of Simon Raymonde from Cocteau Twins, and I’m curious how you two met.

TB: When I did Oh No I Love You, I was trying to get in touch with Simon to put it out. I couldn’t get in touch with him then; I don’t know why. So I put it out on O Genesis, as well as a record by R. Stevie Moore [Lo Fi Hi Fives], which was a game-changer. I thought, if I can put a record out by him, I could put my own record out [as well]. But I was thinking about Simon from [that point on].

We met during a [BBC] 6 Music roundtable, and he was talking about his new band, Lost Horizons. We booked him at Tim Peaks and asked him to curate Tim Peaks the next year. While I was writing I Love the New Sky, I thought I would put it out on O Genesis, but would [also] play it for Simon. He loved it, and that was it, really. I had [also] been thinking about other people, but I only sent it to him.

*Tim Burgess in NYC, 2020. Photo: Cameron Murray for WMF*

BW: Speaking of Tim Peaks, will you be performing any of the I Love The New Sky material there in some form this year?

TB: Bob Stanley is going to be doing Tim Peaks based on the album that we [curated] together, so he’s bringing in Una Baines, who was in the first incarnation of The Fall. She did an amazing, mindboggling album with The Fates [Furia]. It’s that mid-to-late 70s [sounding] witchy kind of music from the area between the Lake District and Northern Manchester.

So she’ll be at Tim Peaks, as well as some other musicians from that album. They may do some folk stuff as well, and if that happens, we could do some folk versions of this stuff, which – at the moment – is very electric.

BW: And this version of the band that is here in New York right now will be touring the UK this summer, and then possibly back to the U.S. after that?

TB: I’ve been offered some dates here, which I’m going to take. I think this album is really suited to America, and a lot of the influences are American.

BW: Both Charlatans and Tim Burgess albums have American influences – certainly Bob Dylan…Nashville influences…

TB: Yeah, definitely. And on this one, R. Stevie Moore and Todd Rundgren. People mention 10cc as well, which is obviously very English. I thought it was very interesting that you spoke with Kevin [Godley]. I spoke with Kevin about Sheet Music, which was the classic for me.

BW: Kevin Godley is truly in the genius category.

TB: Without a doubt. And he did two Charlatans videos that are unbelievable, and many more that are even more unbelievable. I was thrilled to work with him in any capacity.

BW: So looking ahead, I Love The New Sky is out in May, you’ll be touring in the UK and U.S., possibly a fourth book…

TB: A Christmas record with Ariel [Pink]!

BW: That’s right – I hope that finally happens. What are you going to be DJing on that night in April in conjunction with the Ariel Archives Cycle 2 release?

TB: I’m going to bring records: Gary Wilson, Harry Merry, Jyl, and I might play some Keel Her demos. I’ll play an acetate of my album and then give it away – my usual trick.

BW: Do you have a favorite Ariel song?

TB: “Are You Going to Look After My Boys?” and “For Kate I Wait” was a big song for me, and Before Today is probably my favorite album. I like all of them, but that one just has a special meaning for me. It’s one of my favorite records of all time.

BW: After spending the past year working on I Love The New Sky, is there a track – or moment – on the album of which you are most proud?

I think there’s been something incredible about playing theese songs live. The harmonies are fantastic on the whole record, and it’s important that they’ve been coming across live. I’m very pleased with the process, aesthetic, and gang. It’s a great band.

*Times Square, 2020. Photo: Cameron Murray for WMF*

BW: Some of the songs – especially “The Mall” – really hit live in a way that even goes above and beyond the album, in my opinion. It’s been a great thing to witness this past week.

I think so too – that one and “Warhol Me” have really been taking off. It’s always a different thing live, and the fact that we can reach new levels live is a great thing. There are lots of great records that people can’t do live, but we’ve got everything that’s on the record in the live set.

The record has a good spirit, and I think it translates live. There’s positive energy coming from the record and from the band. Even in times like this, there’s a new sky.

You can purchase I Love The New Sky here